#17 of 39:
Bill Clinton (42nd president)
1993-2001
Democrat
ABOVE: Slick Willy, Saturday Night Bill. "The first baby boomer to occupy the Oval Office, he seemed to embody the openness and ease of manner - but also the excesses and self-indulgence - of his generation." - historian Evan Thomas
Clinton was obviously a potent political force. A master of policy who also had the common touch. His character flaws, however, prevented true greatness. Clinton did have fortunate timing. The 90's were a decade of economic good times and smooth sailing. He didn't create the good times, but he also didn't do anything to screw them up.
Clinton accomplished some things that even traditional conservatives can get behind. He pushed for free trade with his enthusiastic endorsement of NAFTA, he (at first grudgingly, later enthusiastically) pushed for welfare reform that reduced entitlements and created stricter standards and he successfully attacked the federal deficit. He initially veered too far Left and got slapped down for it in the '94 midterm elections, but he then deftly tacked back to the center and eventually outflanked Newt and his Contract With America.
Clinton had a less sure hand in foreign policy. After the Somalia disaster, he was a bit gunshy when he should have been stronger (such as during the Rwandan genocide). He did have some modest peacemaking success with helping in Haiti, Bosnia and Ireland.
His real failures include a distasteful habit of decisionmaking-by-poll, the Hillary-led health care debacle, and his failure to meet the rising Islamic Terror threat. Of course, his questionable moral character and self-inflicted wounds will forever taint his reputation. Which is funny, because he was so concerned with how he would be viewed in the history books that he consulted with presidential historians regarding how to be highly ranked in polls such as this one. But the clouds of Whitewater, his impeachment (one of only two American presidents to be impeached, the other was Andrew Johnson), and his pardons showed that he had character flaws that rivaled Nixon's. It is true that the impeachment was mostly political (like Johnson's impeachment), but Clinton did commit perjury and he did recklessly put himself in the situation that allowed for the impeachment in the first place.
Pros:
* Policy master
* Common touch
* Didn't screw up 90's prosperity
* NAFTA, welfare reform, deficit
* Peacemaking in Bosnia and Ireland
Cons:
* Rwanda inaction
* Health Care
* Depended on polls to make decisions
* Impeachment
* Pardons of political friends
#16 of 39:
George H. W. Bush (41st president)
1989-1993
Republican
ABOVE: Bush was a better president than Shrub. Evidently there was much tension between father and son, and many of son's decisions were made in an effort to one-up his Dad.
First of all, George Bush is a good man. And at heart, he was a moderate and pragmatist, once saying "I'm a conservative, but I'm not a nut about it." I think he is actually quite underrated, and in the long run history will look more kindly on his transitional term.
Just compare how he handled his war with Iraq vs. how his son handled his. Daddy Bush used considerable diplomatic skill in breaking up the solidarity of the Arab League and secured key Arab support for his fight with Saddam. His coalition was a true coalition that included key Middle Eastern allies. He handled the end of the Cold War and the fall of the Soviet Union perfectly. Many people do not realize that we could have really screwed that up. Many on his side of the political aisle expected him to gloat at the defeat of communism, but instead Bush had a calm and measured reaction, not wanting to "pour gasoline on the embers," as he put it. He deftly handled the fall of the USSR, not taking overt sides with any of the factions and thereby allowing the USSR to have its death throes naturally, and was able to start off relatively cleanly with Yeltsin. He was also instrumental in helping with a smooth German reunification. Even on the domestic front, he accomplished some noteworthy things like the Clean Air Act and Americans With Disabilties Act.
Of course, he got nailed on his broken promise not to raise taxes. In his pragmatic way, he saw that he would have to compromise with gleeful tax-happy Democrats in Congress and raise taxes in order to deal with the budget. His own party turned against him. Also, the Savings and Loan Bailout was an embarassment, but that was really cleaning up a mess that was made under Reagan's deregulation. (Granted, Bush was a big part of Reagan's administration too). Also, many criticize him for not "finishing the job in Iraq" and failing to dethrone Saddam, but again, Bush was handling some delicate matters with the Russians, and a full on invasion/occupation of Iraq would have upset that relationship.
Pros:
* Pragmatist and not an idealogue
* Built strong coalition to fight Saddam
* Handled the end of the Cold War well, especially the fall of the USSR
* Helped with German reunification
* Clean Air Act
* Americans With Disabilities Act
Cons:
* Got nailed on taxes
* Savings and Loan Bailout
* Lacked the "vision thing"
13 comments:
Perhaps it's because I'm a GenX Republican that I just can't stomach seeing Clinton rated so highly. But I'll try and address your list specificially.
Firstly, Clinton was impeached because he perjured himself. The same measure that's applied to Nixon for breaking the law should be applied to Clinton. And the host of scandals (even now not fully revealed) in no small measure equal or surpass Nixon's shenanigans, whether Tricky Dick was ever prosecuted for them or not. At least Nixon didn't force the impeachment proceedings and miseducate the American people about whether perjury was a "misdemeanor" worthy of removal from office (it is). I'm still sickened by the thought of Clinton and Gore on the Capitol steps after the vote holding their solidarity rally claiming the outcome as a "victory for our Constitution."
Clinton won a second term by co-opting his opponents agenda, which was good politics from an electoral standpoint, but Clinton's own agenda was effectively stalled (thankfully) during the last six years of his presidency. He "balanced the budget" by removing the longstanding practice of not counting Social Security receipts (thus ending the I.O.U. sham informed taxpayers had been subjected to for generations). His first budget enacted the highest tax increase in American history. So as far as his affability or rapport with the American people, it only existed to the extent that the agenda he WANTED was blocked by an opposition Congress.
Personally, whatever success in peacekeeping missions (which are not vital to U.S. national security), occurred, they pale in comparison to his horrible handling of foreign policy on the whole and his response to the rise of Islamic terrorism in general. That we could have had Obama in U.S. custody is an indefensible failure on the part of the administration.
Clinton's effect on society at-large as the nation's most prominent leader was on the whole a negative one. "Boxers or briefs", "I never inhaled", "what 'is' is", etc. Forget acting presidential, the Slick Willie left a legacy of cynicism unmatched since Nixon and was a poor example to the nation's most impressionable and vulnerable generation, inadvertently encouraging sexual promiscuity and illegal drug use among our teenagers.
The economic boom in the Clinton years is a direct result of Reagan's policies (and neither Bush nor Clinton mucking about with them.) Clinton signed the bill late in his administration, however, that deregulated investment banking which was a contributing factor to the current recession in addition to leaving his successor with a recession (that's often miscredited to Bush II).
I admire the positive things Clinton did (particularly his commitment to free trade and his signing of welfare reform), but the negatives so outweigh it and then there's the whole "intent" vs. "outcome" issue. Had Clinton had a Democratic Congress for all eight years, we'd almost certainly be rating him in Nixon-Carter territory.
Clinton rating in the upper half of all presidents must be a damning indictment on the lack of positive leadership among our chief executives from a historical standpoint. Even knowing that, I dunno....can't pick a number at random. But top 20? I feel ill. LOL
Perhaps it's because I'm a GenX Republican that I just can't stomach seeing Clinton rated so highly. But I'll try and address your list specificially.
Firstly, Clinton was impeached because he perjured himself. The same measure that's applied to Nixon for breaking the law should be applied to Clinton. And the host of scandals (even now not fully revealed) in no small measure equal or surpass Nixon's shenanigans, whether Tricky Dick was ever prosecuted for them or not. At least Nixon didn't force the impeachment proceedings and miseducate the American people about whether perjury was a "misdemeanor" worthy of removal from office (it is). I'm still sickened by the thought of Clinton and Gore on the Capitol steps after the vote holding their solidarity rally claiming the outcome as a "victory for our Constitution."
Clinton won a second term by co-opting his opponents agenda, which was good politics from an electoral standpoint, but Clinton's own agenda was effectively stalled (thankfully) during the last six years of his presidency. He "balanced the budget" by removing the longstanding practice of not counting Social Security receipts (thus ending the I.O.U. sham informed taxpayers had been subjected to for generations). His first budget enacted the highest tax increase in American history. So as far as his affability or rapport with the American people, it only existed to the extent that the agenda he WANTED was blocked by an opposition Congress.
Personally, whatever success in peacekeeping missions (which are not vital to U.S. national security), occurred, they pale in comparison to his horrible handling of foreign policy on the whole and his response to the rise of Islamic terrorism in general. That we could have had Obama in U.S. custody is an indefensible failure on the part of the administration.
Clinton's effect on society at-large as the nation's most prominent leader was on the whole a negative one. "Boxers or briefs", "I never inhaled", "what 'is' is", etc. Forget acting presidential, the Slick Willie left a legacy of cynicism unmatched since Nixon and was a poor example to the nation's most impressionable and vulnerable generation, inadvertently encouraging sexual promiscuity and illegal drug use among our teenagers.
The economic boom in the Clinton years is a direct result of Reagan's policies (and neither Bush nor Clinton mucking about with them.) Clinton signed the bill late in his administration, however, that deregulated investment banking which was a contributing factor to the current recession in addition to leaving his successor with a recession (that's often miscredited to Bush II).
I admire the positive things Clinton did (particularly his commitment to free trade and his signing of welfare reform), but the negatives so outweigh it and then there's the whole "intent" vs. "outcome" issue. Had Clinton had a Democratic Congress for all eight years, we'd almost certainly be rating him in Nixon-Carter territory.
Clinton rating in the upper half of all presidents must be a damning indictment on the lack of positive leadership among our chief executives from a historical standpoint. Even knowing that, I dunno....can't pick a number at random. But top 20? I feel ill. LOL
Perhaps it's because I'm a GenX Republican that I just can't stomach seeing Clinton rated so highly. But I'll try and address your list specificially.
Firstly, Clinton was impeached because he perjured himself. The same measure that's applied to Nixon for breaking the law should be applied to Clinton. And the host of scandals (even now not fully revealed) in no small measure equal or surpass Nixon's shenanigans, whether Tricky Dick was ever prosecuted for them or not. At least Nixon didn't force the impeachment proceedings and miseducate the American people about whether perjury was a "misdemeanor" worthy of removal from office (it is). I'm still sickened by the thought of Clinton and Gore on the Capitol steps after the vote holding their solidarity rally claiming the outcome as a "victory for our Constitution."
Clinton won a second term by co-opting his opponents agenda, which was good politics from an electoral standpoint, but Clinton's own agenda was effectively stalled (thankfully) during the last six years of his presidency. He "balanced the budget" by removing the longstanding practice of not counting Social Security receipts (thus ending the I.O.U. sham informed taxpayers had been subjected to for generations). His first budget enacted the highest tax increase in American history. So as far as his affability or rapport with the American people, it only existed to the extent that the agenda he WANTED was blocked by an opposition Congress.
Personally, whatever success in peacekeeping missions (which are not vital to U.S. national security), occurred, they pale in comparison to his horrible handling of foreign policy on the whole and his response to the rise of Islamic terrorism in general. That we could have had Obama in U.S. custody is an indefensible failure on the part of the administration.
Clinton's effect on society at-large as the nation's most prominent leader was on the whole a negative one. "Boxers or briefs", "I never inhaled", "what 'is' is", etc. Forget acting presidential, the Slick Willie left a legacy of cynicism unmatched since Nixon and was a poor example to the nation's most impressionable and vulnerable generation, inadvertently encouraging sexual promiscuity and illegal drug use among our teenagers.
The economic boom in the Clinton years is a direct result of Reagan's policies (and neither Bush nor Clinton mucking about with them.) Clinton signed the bill late in his administration, however, that deregulated investment banking which was a contributing factor to the current recession in addition to leaving his successor with a recession (that's often miscredited to Bush II).
I admire the positive things Clinton did (particularly his commitment to free trade and his signing of welfare reform), but the negatives so outweigh it and then there's the whole "intent" vs. "outcome" issue. Had Clinton had a Democratic Congress for all eight years, we'd almost certainly be rating him in Nixon-Carter territory.
Clinton rating in the upper half of all presidents must be a damning indictment on the lack of positive leadership among our chief executives from a historical standpoint. Even knowing that, I dunno....can't pick a number at random. But top 20? I feel ill. LOL
I can get behind these. I actually wish Clinton was president now instead of Obama. In looking back, except for 92-94, I actually think the man did a pretty good job, especially on the domestic front. My biggest complaint is that he somewhat forced Bush II mid east strategy by not enforcing the rules that were put in place at the end of Bush I
It is a shame about Bush I. He basically fell victim to a lackluster economy (which he was actually instrumental in turning around by the time Clinton came into office). Think about where we would be now on our current issues, both foreign or domestic if he were president today. In much better shape than what his son left us and what Obama is magnifying.
If Ford and Bush teach us one thing, it is that good men don't necessarily make great presidents.
My one complaint is that you have both of these ranked lower than kennedy.
I've forgotten now. I know Clinton was impeached for perjury, but I've forgotten which lie it was for. Anybody know?
Father Bush is actually one of my all-time favorite Presidents. I'm sure I am a little partial due to his Houston connection but I just think he is a very good person and I thought he was a very effective President. And I agree with his decision to not "finish the job" during the Gulf War. I still disagree with his son's decision to go to war in Iraq.
My biggest disappointment with Bush was his botched re-election campaign. He should never have lost, but he didn't seem to think he needed to campaign much, and Clinton took advantage of his absence.
I have very mixed feelings about Clinton. I thought he was awful in the beginning with his foreign policy blunders and the health care debacle, but overall I thought he did a pretty decent job in the end. I still wish Bush had managed to stay in office for 4 more years, so I would definitely have Bush higher than Clinton by more than one spot and I'd definitely put Bush ahead of Kennedy.
So Brad, how do you really feel about Clinton? Great post. That is what is fun about doing these, the discussion that it fosters.
Dre, Clinton's perjury was regarding his relations with Monica Lewinsky. He lied during the deposition in the Paula Jones case. A deposition is the same as being before a judge. We can argue about whether Lewinsky was relevant or not, but if you knowingly lie in a deposition, that is illegal. It does not matter what it is about.
I will be curious about what you guys think about my next two.
Brad - i forgot to ask. When you mentioned Clinton's failure to have Obama in US custody, was that an unintentional slip of the keyboard or a jab at Obama?
OMG...I meant OSAMA (bin Laden). Wow. Talk about a Freudian slip. It will be interesting to observe the differences between Clinton and Obama after this November's election if Obama loses Congress. I can't see our current president "triangulating" in response to that kind of scenario. And yes, I never thought I'd yearn for the "Clinton years". Interesting that the 1990 tax hike under Bush Sr. was the highest in history until Clinton's 1993 hike, which will be surpassed shortly by the 2011 tax hikes under Obama (with the expiration of the Bush II tax cuts of '01 and '03). Three of our last four presidents will have presided over the biggest tax increase in American history. Talk about a need for leadership...
Brad, you're the GenX Republican?
I fall somewhere in between Brad and fierce Clinton supporters. I'd hardly blame him for the country's sex and drug habits. How about Madonna? Dennis Hopper? And back and back....
And though Clinton's character is/was dubious, and I always thought he was a smarmy communicator, I'm not sure I would compare the actual thing he was impeached for to Nixon.
As for taxes, it's hard to pay for two seemingly endless wars started by a Republican administration. (I was reluctantly supportive of both wars in the beginning, but if you had told me we'd be mired in both places in 2010, it might have been a different discussion.) Not to mention the domestic agenda and debt and on and on....higher taxes seem like an inevitability, no? It's why even Republicans like Bush I should never make promises about them.
Clinton was impeached for breaking the law. Perjuring oneself is as much a crime as covering up a B&E. Both presidents broke the law (the aren't the only ones.) I recognize that a majority of Americans today don't feel that perjury is an impeachable offense, but our Founders felt differently. And as our nation's history plainly demonstrates, popular majorities are not always right.
As far as Clinton's impact on culture, if we recognize the impact of the bully pulpit to persuade Americans that behavior A or behavior B is good for the country - and I can't imagine there's any real disagreement that the presidency has certainly developed into that role, among its many other job descriptions; the president IS the most prominent American in the world - then the president must be held accountable for the kinds of behavior he promotes. Clinton, through his personal indiscretions as well as his c'est la vie approach to his (past) vices, promoted unhealthy and unproductive lifestyles. Do the Reagan's get credit for "Just Say No"? Does Nixon get dinged for the "disillusionment" with politics baby boomers are alleged to have? Does JFK get credit for "ask not what your country can do for you?" I'm just applying the same standard to Bill Clinton. Promoting casual drug use and sexual promiscuity is a negative mark on his legacy. He's not responsible (obviously, or ultimately) for that, but he certainly encouraged it, if inadvertently, and those are major social problems amongst our youngest (most impressionable) generations. How many of these Clinton "jokes" are as ingrained in pop culture as a result? It's a tragic abdication of moral authority from the nation's preeminent leader. Comparing the role of POTUS in American life to entertainers is a little specious. School children aren't taught that Madonna and Dennis Hopper are national leaders, worthy of our respect because of the office they hold.
Clinton (as with Bush and Obama) is still "too fresh" in the popular imagination for most people to apply the standards they judge other presidents with consistently.
Just by Dez's rankings, he apparently rates "recent" presidents as follows:
1. Reagan
2. Bush
3. Clinton
4. Johnson
5. Nixon
6. Carter
7. Ford
I hope when Dez is finished with this great list he's compiled, he'll give us his preliminary thoughts on W and O.
And yes, higher taxes do *seem* like an inevitability. Sadly.
I would argue that, at this point, LeBron James is the most prominent American in the world.
Hay-oooh!
I agree with you pergury and obstruction of justice are just as bad as . . .well . . . perjury and obstruction of justice
Until 9pm tonight it would seem
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